DARING 2 B U
DARING 2 B U
SHIFTING MINDSETS: EMBRACING KINGDOM DIVERSITY WITH DR. JUDITH LOGAN ANTHONY, Part 2
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Have you ever wondered what it truly means to walk in love and acceptance amidst a world rife with cultural divides? Dr. Judith Logan Anthony joins us, instilling her profound wisdom and personal tales on the impact of diversity and inclusion from a Kingdom lens. Together, we navigate through her inspiring journey—starting from the childhood lessons of rejection to the revelation of seeing ourselves as God's divine creation. Our dialogue offers a deep exploration into the need for intentional love, the acquisition of cultural understanding, and the pursuit of empathy that transcends all differences and embraces every tribe, tongue, and nation.
This episode peels back the layers of self-identity, personal beliefs, and the crucial role each of us plays in mending the fabric of our collective humanity. We tackle the often uncomfortable yet necessary work of confronting our biases, becoming a safe harbor for open dialogue, and the active pursuit of becoming 'bridge builders' in a divided world. Through stories and theological reflection, we reveal how embracing diversity not only enriches our lives but also aligns with the spiritual mandate to love one another wholeheartedly.
Concluding with a message of hope, we draw parallels between the sacred act of worship and the unifying spirit found in global sports. In the face of historical wounds and the ongoing journey towards healing from racism, our conversation does not shy away from the emotional weight such trauma carries. But with every challenge laid bare, we offer practical tools and insights for anyone determined to leave a lasting, positive mark on the world. Join Dr. Judith and me as we unpack these critical themes, inviting you to partake in the never-ending quest for genuine unity and love in action.
Navigating Tough Conversations and Promoting Self-Examination
Speaker 1Hmm , I like that position , ourselves as the safe space , the safe space .
Speaker 2So that's why when you see someone , you know people and a lot of it is just the spirit in you . But you know that we can look at people and that the eyes are the window the soul makes my say . First , you know , get their attention , meet their eyes , because they can tell whether your friend or foe , you know , by the glimmer in your eye which you radiate . We have to radiate with our whole being acceptance , you know , and so and then . So , when people come to you and a lot of times don't get me wrong , and sometimes I would be the one hurting so bad , but it's always been more important for me to make someone else , to let someone else leave the room feeling more peace and in at least a germ of acceptance , because I think in that you end up allowing them the space to really truly question themselves and to come to terms with themselves .
Speaker 2Because a lot of times when people say wrong things , if they haven't , if they didn't know they were going to say something that was offensive or upsetting to you , if they didn't unintentionally , they see the reaction right away . Or if they don't see the reaction right away and you're the type person that can say something to them of you know , very lovingly , you know , just explain it to them . They think about that , that sticks with them . It becomes a brainworm , still an earworm , and don't think about that thing over and over again . And that point that one opportunity to bring awareness will make them , I think intentionally , will lead them to intentionally question even more things that have happened in their lives or things have said and , to be honest , when somebody else has offended them .
Speaker 1Well , I think , I think that I'm hearing that it doesn't just make them comfortable , but it also empowers and it can be a tool that leads people to self Examination , self awareness and certainly , in order for us to do the work , we've got to do those things . What happens when you press in and you have the tough conversations and we hold ourselves accountable first and we also are willing to hold others accountable ? What happens when we do that and nothing changes ? What can we do and those types of circumstances ?
Speaker 2Well , we know that change does not happen overnight , and so one of the things I premise it with , especially when people come up and can I talk or can I ask you why black people do this or why this person does that , or then I say , ok , here's the deal , I will talk with you , but I can only talk from my own experience . When I talk to you , I'm telling you Judith's experience . Judith's experience it does not go for every black person in the world . I can give you our common shared experiences through history , what we know , but you have to understand that . Number one , number two , it cannot be a one time conversation .
Speaker 2If you really want to know , you have to commit to me that we will have a follow up conversation or conversations , because , even though what I tell you , your heart is open and you may look at it , your heart is open and you may listen and you may receive at that time , because you're my presence , what I'm saying . But the minute you walk away or go back into your own environment of people , you know just your own environment of whatever those belief systems are and the talks that going on , all of a sudden you think of over back , over what , the conversation that we have and you're uncomfortable , you think you took it wrong , you're mad , it's just confusion . So you have to promise me that it will go on an ongoing conversation or at least we'll have one other conversation , because and I take it as a teaching moment If you take what I say about Judith and all of a sudden you think I know black people and you go to the next black person and assume you know them and come across as very confident that I know black people , I can talk to black people . Now I'm confident you're going to find yourself perhaps in a very peculiar situation . That's not easy , yeah .
Speaker 1That is true , that is true , and so there's no , there's no quick fix , one size fits all for any of this right .
Speaker 2For any of this
Navigating Healing and Understanding in Diversity
Speaker 2. It is just like winning people to the Lord . You , you do your testimony , you share your experience . You give them an opportunity to encounter the Lord Jesus Christ through you , and then it is their decision whether to accept Him and even then to start learning and walking in His will and His way . Well , the same thing with anything that you share that's different for them . It has to be their own conscious decision . And so when you talk to someone and they stay hateful for the rest of their life , that you have to realize that's not on you , that was their decision , their kind . They encountered it . It was their decision to continue on the way they do .
Speaker 2And let me say this that a lot of times I have found that people who are like that don't ever really , are never really open to changing or opening up their hearts to others different than them , whether that's not just culture and ethnicity but all kinds of diversity that they . They close themselves off from all of it . And so they're not , they're not going to , they're just not open . They're going to never intentionally be it . But when they will become intentional , it's when it personally impacts them .
Speaker 2Their family member or their person marries into that culture , whatever it is , whatever it is that makes you different , whether it's a blended family or non-traditional family , or you know , your , your daughter , marries a black man and all of a sudden you got these grand babies that are biracial . That is when they really start opening their hearts and coming to terms and really wanting to understand those type of people . Yeah , yeah , you know . And so you just continue , like we do with people that hear the word and choose not to follow . At that time , you just pray and believe that you plan to see someone else will water along the way and hopefully someone else will get to see the harvest .
Speaker 1Yes , yes , yes .
Speaker 1So what would you say to people who have lived through decades and decades of racism , classism , sexism , and it's almost like people can have a tendency to feel , if I don't hold on to this , if I ease up on this , then it's me condoning what people have done to me , or it's me condoning what happened to my grandmother or my ancestors or what have you and I'm speaking from culturally African Americans .
Speaker 1A lot of people feel that I've spoken with . A lot of people feel as if I can't . I can't release people who have done these things in the past , who have been racist . I can't release them from this because if I do , then I can't hold them accountable . I can't hold future generations accountable and I feel like I'm betraying my people if I start to embrace something different . So how do you speak to that and speak to those attitudes and a lot of them that I've spoken with are people who are believers but there's this anger that shows up , which is really an acceptable picture of the pain is anger , and so what would you say to someone who's living that experience ?
Speaker 2What I would say and what I have said . Number one I always started with I am so sorry . It is amazing what the power of those words have because , even though it may have been history and in world culture , world views that they've inherited , it's their reality . And sometimes just hearing somebody , anybody , connect with their hurt and their heart to say I am so sorry for whatever experience you had or your family's had in generations . I am so sorry that you have that . You have to deal with it . That's your experience . But just you know , just as we're taught as Christians , that forgiveness we are to forgive and forgiveness is not for the one you forgive , it's for you to forgive . Yes , yes .
Speaker 2And so you can choose to carry all of that hurt from the institutionalized racism , or some people call it racialization in the field that I study in , because racism , even if racism doesn't exist anymore , the effects of racism exist and these impact upon the world , upon the earth , and so some people call it racialization . And so there are impacts , there are effects of that , and because it has been perpetuated through the industrial movement and segregation and all the things going forth and all the institutional , how embedded it is in the institution of schools and churches and just the United States . And now you know , as I'm getting more , even more worldview with folks on the Zoom all over the world , it becomes something that is more subtle , but it is still there and it's kind of like being when you're sexually harassed , people go . How do you know it's sexual harassment ? What's that feeling inside that ? It's almost like a feeling of being humiliated , but past that , like something valuable taken from you . It's like a rape . And so the same thing with I would tell some people they'd say I don't get black people and why they have such anger and such hatred or whatever , and it's like you don't know it until you feel it and maybe , for a black person can relate to that . But for all my white sisters and brothers , my European sisters and brothers , then I have to find another way , an example to show them in their lives how it would relate to them .
Speaker 2For instance , we see in the news all the time where there's this precious beautiful little blonde , blue-eyed person who was kidnapped in an early age and was taken by somebody and years later they came forth and they'd been kept by that man and they'd given birth to his children and been abused and never seen the light of day and all these terrible things . And they come forth and they're given all this love and attention and nurturing and psychological and medical attention for as long as they need it not only them , their children , because their children didn't understand it all , but they felt the effects and they've been built into this . And as they get older is when they read their own story and hear other people talking about it . Then the kids are gonna be barred with that information too . So all along the way , they know that they really have to walk . Somebody has to walk with this mother and these children throughout their whole life , because certain things only arise in the psyche as you get older , as you approach things or as triggers are triggered , and so I use that , for instance with white women , to say so .
Speaker 2When do you stop giving that person and trying to understand their experience ? When do you stop ever trying to understand that woman's experience ? When do you stop trying to understand those children's experience ? When do you stop hurting for them ? When do you stop trying to make a better day for them or to soothe their hurts and their anxieties as they go forth , even up through the ages ?
Speaker 2Well , that is so with a person of a culture , for instance from the African-American . Let's stay with the African-American experience when that's all you know for generations that that family has gone through from being brought from Africa and enslaved . No slaves were brought from Africa , they were free people brought to the States and made slaves , and even that is a lot opener for most people that they didn't realize what they say when they're saying . But anyway , when you explain that and there are people that , just as the world is segregated to a certain extent now by communities , because we have everything we need and in the community that we need and there's no reason for people to go outside that community , well , the same thing and think about those communities of poverty and extended racism where they still get their main identity and their main values , their main worldview , from that enclosed community in which they live and so it's perpetuated generation after generation after generation , because there was no one that came through or they don't see the society responding to it and giving them the understanding , taking the extra effort to understand them , to understand what they've been through and what their children are gonna go through and how it's manifested in their lives .
Speaker 2It's a thinking man's game . You always have to be kind of open and thinking what does that look like for you ? Yes , high experience . What does that ? You don't have my experience , but what does that translate to you in your experience ?
Speaker 1So this is not a sprint , this is a marathon .
Speaker 2This is a marathon , my coaching program that started a couple years ago . I tell them , and in fact I have this little e-book that you can read . It's real quick , simple and easy and it's almost more like filling the blanks or gains , because it's like I'm not going to tell you . I can tell you what my five steps are to becoming what I feel like you have to give attention to , to become a bridge builder . But I only call it a discovery , that it is a book that will help you to start you on the path , the journey to discover who you are , what you need to do to become a bridge builder . Yes , it is . It's a lifelong . It's a lifelong assignment
Working Through Pain, Unity, and Hope
Speaker 2. We never , like I said , I don't get it right all the time . There's times that , even though I know all of this and something will hit me and I go inward and not inward to what happened here , but like I'm hurting that really just hit me in a different spot or came at me unaware . I wasn't ready for that .
Speaker 1Right , right . Yeah , I believe for me , matter of fact , one of the most memorable things that I've really well , two of the most memorable things I've had to work through and work really hard and pray through Therapy is good because these two incidents were so extreme and so tragic and it just did something to me . I love that we have cameras now because a lot of what we were trying to get people to understand they can now see . And I know that's helped tremendously with some relationships where people say you know , it was different when I saw it and I thought about you or I thought about our conversation . You know those things . And it was the Trayvon Martin case and the verdict .
Speaker 1I remember where I was , I remember what I was doing , I remember being so utterly confused . I remember crying and not being . I couldn't stop the tears . And I remember , as a minister , receiving so many calls and text messages from people who had son saying now , what do I tell my son Now , what do I do ? And I just remember that moment . So that was something I really had to work through . And also the George Floyd thing . I just you know working through those things . Really , I had to get some assistance to work through those things .
Speaker 1But what I realized is that if we view everyone as created is in the image of God , and every person being redeemable not because of their own works but because of the work of Jesus Christ , then I can't .
Speaker 1I can't have the isms rule and reign in my life , because they will cost me so much more than I ever wanted to give , because I can't live in obedience to Christ and I can't be OK with having hatred in my heart for another person . So one of the things that I think is important is to work through it in the way that we have to do it . And so when I recognize I began to recognize that when , when fear walks in , there is going to be covering up , there's going to be avoidance and all of that . But when truth walks in , fear walks out , and so I have to live in the light of truth , and that means wrestling with myself , sometimes . Right , yes , and so give us what your favorite scripture is to help us to begin to see others through the lens of the image of God . Give us a scripture that you rest on that really helps you to help people understand .
Speaker 2Wow , that's , oh my , you can , I can see all these groups is going past my eyes . Where does one ? I find myself saying to other folks , Of course , one of them , of course , is in was in . I'm a praise worship . I'm a praise or a worshiper , and I love being happy and joyful . So it makes me happy to picture heaven in the revelations scripture , that you know , that there was every tongue and every tribe and every nation , that around the clock are singing Holy , Holy , Holy is the Lord , God Almighty , and that for some reason , it excites me , because it's really because I , you know , I've been to so many countries and I speak so many languages , and even on the earth I think about bringing all my friends together that I've lived 67 years and so I've lived in every region , almost every region of the United States , and it's like I want to be the magnet , I want to be one of the forces that helps me to see , you know , to not just do see it in heaven , but to see it here on earth , that we're all just coming together and it just doesn't matter , and so , yeah , and like , as you can tell , that , just that just gives me joy and delight . So when I walk into a church . When I walk into a church and I see that actually manifested , you know that it's on this stage and it's in the body , and it's in the pews , and and and not only that , like in my church , there's , there's a Sunday where every , every country , every nation that is in the church has the opportunity to walk with their flag and proudly be acknowledged and embraced . That all of our diversity does not make us , and differences does not make us so different that we can't love one another and belong to . Ultimately , you know , we can , can , can , abide in unity , and so I see that at the church and you know where else I see it . Help us , help us , Lord Jesus , our Christians , because this is one of the idea , places I see it .
Speaker 2And a national soccer game . That's true , that's maybe football players , people may take sides and get irate or whatever , so whatever , but when you go into a soccer stadium which originated in other countries and other continents and you come in and they're bringing in teams from team members from all over the world , it doesn't matter what their ethnicity , their nationality , their language , some of them can't even speak English but they come because of their skill , their gift , that thing that only they bring to the team and that they can put together with the other skill gifts and skills of the team to become this winning , powerful entity . So it starts with the team and because of that , everybody that comes has that same mindset . You know they don't get mad , they don't get it . You know they boot , they even cheer when there's a good play by even the other team , because it was just so awesome in the world of soccer .
Speaker 2And so that's the other place . That is just like Walmart for America used to be it , but for me , because it's the joyfulness , the celebration , it's , it's the soccer team that comes closest to heaven and everybody learns the songs , everybody learns that same thing . That's all about . You know , we're standing in unity , we'll never give up on you . It , that's the words , I'll never give up on you . And ultimately that's what I believe the heart of Christianity is . John 316 , when God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , knowing who we are , what we're gonna do and what we're gonna be . And yet he never gave up on us and he made away . God so love the world that he gave his only beloved begotten son to . Whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life , and so I know that there is hope for everybody , for this world and for each and every individual , because God doesn't give up on us .
The Power of Love and Forgiveness
Speaker 1Wow , wow , you said a whole mouthful . His love never fails .
Speaker 2Never fails .
Speaker 1Never gives up .
Speaker 2Never gives up .
Speaker 1Never walks away from us , right , no ? And so what I'm hearing is that we've got to put in the work , we got to put in the word , because that's what love does .
Speaker 2That's what love does , and love is action . It's a verb , not a feeling . I don't have to feel love for you . I choose to love you .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2Yes , I love you in word , indeed , in action , I love you to forgive your , you know , officeiveness and not take offense , you know and to work through because and to work through just being being honest .
Speaker 1Sometimes we will get offended , but we work through it Right , because , as you stated earlier , forgiveness is not so much for the other , it's for us . Yes , it's for us , because I want to be free , to be the vessel that God can use . Amen . I've got to release people and I'm not saying it's easy because I know that's what I'm going to get in comments . That's not easy , or it's easier said than done . But the truth of the matter is is that all of us , we got one planet . We got one planet and we're all living on it , and we've got to let's we destroy ourselves completely . We've got to learn how to live with one another , and so we've got to put in the work . We've got to be willing to do the work , not always because we feel like it , because most of the time we won't feel like , but we've got to be willing to do it because that's what love does you sorry , yeah , that's okay , he'll he'll .
Speaker 2Just I don't want to make too much work for him . I don't know why my Internet just drop . They're doing a lot of construction all around us and yeah , you a fire , fire .
Speaker 1You know what . That was good , I love that . So I'm going to ask you to give us closing remarks now , any ? I'm going to say do you have any closing remarks ? That's what I'm going to get ready to ask you .
Speaker 2Okay , wait a minute , wait a minute . Wait a minute , wait a minute and I can mention my program , right ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm going to say that .
Speaker 2I'm going to say that Okay , okay , okay , okay , okay . Why do I want to say okay ? I'll say something .
Speaker 1Well , no , I'll tell you what I'll do . I'll start us back up and I'll say okay , judith , close us out , share with us about your coaching program and anything else you'd like to To share . And so make sure you share about your coaching , make sure you share how they can follow you on social media , that stuff , your website , whatever .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , okay , okay , all right , I guess so so let me know when you ready what , and this . This computer popped back up and gave me all this stuff I don't need . On my on my zoom Just started doing that . They keep adding stuff and so , therefore , they keep adding stuff . Okay , it's distracting . Okay , I'm going to go to , I'll need to see myself , I just need to see you . Okay , no , I'll leave it . Okay , wait a minute . I'm still not ready . Okay , all right , I'll say something . Okay , okay .
Speaker 1So , judith , today has been a joy . You've given me so much to chew on . I got to go back and look at some stuff with some things around shopping , my my perspective . So share with us , share with us how people can reach out to you , share with us the resources that you offer . The floor is yours .
Speaker 2Well , you know , I started out with hello . I'm a multicultural misfit , but with a purpose to become a bridge builder , and I believe that each one of us are called to be bridge builders , to be reconcilers . But some of you may think that you don't have the tools , you don't know how to start . I can help with that . I can go to my website , simply JudithLoganAnthonycom , and download my free gift to you , a little book entitled you Can Become a Bridge Builder , and that will introduce you to my program , which are five keys to discover your self . Work to heal wounded hearts yours and others caused by cultural divisions , cultural wars , society constructed isms and schisms , and gain confidence to engage with other cultures , and you'll be able to equip others to become bridge builders with global impact . To the next time you're in a place where someone doesn't fit in , you will be that bridge builder that will make a difference . You will help them to fit in and belong .
Speaker 2I have in that book and I call it just it is keys to help you discover . Discover what it takes to become a bridge builder . You know I've said that the phrase be a change you want to see . So there are five steps or keys , and I actually came up with a game to that hopefully will be coming out in 2024 , called get a clue . Remember the game clue ? And in that game the Mike five keys really relate to the body parts , because we're all one body but many parts .
Building Bridges Through Cultural Understanding
Speaker 2And so it starts with the heart , which is clarity . People think clarity is in the brain understanding . No , clarity is in the heart . Remember who you are , what , this condition of your heart , all the scriptures about the heart and loving one another . So it starts with clarity . Then it's cultural competence . That's the brain , that's the head , that's the thought process , that's the intentional learning and understanding , cultures and history and everything that is that impacts us , to make make this division , this gap that we have to help bridge . And then the third step is communication . It's ears . People think the mouth is communication and is part of it . But as we as communicators know that communication only starts , is only effective , when someone speaks and somebody listens and hears and understands . And so communication and we'll talk about all the different ways even communication causes conflict in a gap .
Speaker 2Commitment Got to build up , get that body built up . It's a commitment to the work , to doing all that you need and all and bringing all this together and then hands and feet are the community that , even when you know and as you start learning and doing , we have to come together and communities through collaborations . You can never do it all yourself . So these keys will lead you on a path of discovery to know and understand your own cultural identity , worldview , your social identity . It will reduce stress and anxiety so that you're prepared in times of social crisis because somebody say social crisis , with the election season coming up , social crisis time and to safely and confidently engaging conversations about race , ethnicity and culture without offense . I'm telling you it's just time , tish is time , world , to stop burning bridges and build them to one another . So I say , in the name of Jesus , let's go , let's make a difference together and let it begin today .
Speaker 1Wow , I'm just standing on that note . What else do y'all think I could possibly say Nothing ? Thank you , judith , I love you . You're my sister and you just helped me a whole lot . Yo social media website , all of that , find her , let's do it .
Speaker 2It's looking at the dot com Judith Logan Anthony on Facebook . Judith Logan Anthony easy to find my name .
Speaker 1All right , all right , thank you .
Speaker 2Thank you . Thank you for having me .