DARING 2 B U
DARING 2 B U
SHIFTING MINDSETS: EMBRACING KINGDOM DIVERSITY WITH DR. JUDITH LOGAN ANTHONY
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Have you ever wondered what it truly means to walk in love and acceptance amidst a world rife with cultural divides? Dr. Judith Logan Anthony joins us, instilling her profound wisdom and personal tales on the impact of diversity and inclusion from a Kingdom lens. Together, we navigate through her inspiring journey—starting from the childhood lessons of rejection to the revelation of seeing ourselves as God's divine creation. Our dialogue offers a deep exploration into the need for intentional love, the acquisition of cultural understanding, and the pursuit of empathy that transcends all differences and embraces every tribe, tongue, and nation.
This episode peels back the layers of self-identity, personal beliefs, and the crucial role each of us plays in mending the fabric of our collective humanity. We tackle the often uncomfortable yet necessary work of confronting our biases, becoming a safe harbor for open dialogue, and the active pursuit of becoming 'bridge builders' in a divided world. Through stories and theological reflection, we reveal how embracing diversity not only enriches our lives but also aligns with the spiritual mandate to love one another wholeheartedly.
Concluding with a message of hope, we draw parallels between the sacred act of worship and the unifying spirit found in global sports. In the face of historical wounds and the ongoing journey towards healing from racism, our conversation does not shy away from the emotional weight such trauma carries. But with every challenge laid bare, we offer practical tools and insights for anyone determined to leave a lasting, positive mark on the world. Join Dr. Judith and me as we unpack these critical themes, inviting you to partake in the never-ending quest for genuine unity and love in action.
Understanding Diversity and Inclusion
Speaker 1Welcome , welcome , welcome to daring to be where , of course , we are always seeking to engage , educate , equip and empower others Women in particular , but all people . And today we are looking at something that we don't talk about enough , and we're looking at what it really means to truly be diverse , what it means to be accepting and inclusive of all cultures , races , creeds , colors , if you will . So we're looking at that . We're looking at that through the lens of being a part of God's kingdom , and so we have Judith Anthony with us today . And listen , you are in for a treat . She is going to help us to come to a greater understanding . I believe she speaks with revelation about this because of her experiences . So tell us who you are , judith , introduce yourself and let us know what is your passion , work .
Speaker 2Hello everyone and thank you for that wonderful intro . Dr Latisha really is . Now I'm going to call her . Tis is okay , I'm a little bit familiar with this . Yeah , I called I'm Judith and she's tish . So I am Dr Judith Logan Anthony , and I am I titled myself a multicultural misfit , but with a purpose to promote bridge building for unity and peace . I have to tell you that I have been years thinking about this and cataloging everything that's gone on in my life , and so you know the how there's certain things in your life to stand down . You think , when ? When did I realize this ? This desire , this passion was in me , and it was when I was about 10 or 11 years old .
Speaker 2I was in my church choir and joyful voices resounded this Sunday morning with shouts of hallelujah and praise . The Lord , evoked by our youth , led worship service that morning , and then the pastor stood up as normal to welcome the great everyone and welcome the visitors , and he started out by saying I see we have some guests . I wonder if perhaps you're in the wrong place . And it began to name the churches that were available next to us and down the street and uncomfortably I'm going to age couple of a different race looked at each other for a moment and then they quietly rose to their feet and left . What I couldn't believe my eyes because I glanced at the picture of Jesus above the baptismal that said one Lord , one faith , one baptism , and down at the communion table that says who so ever will let them come and at the time of segregation . My limited perspective from my life experiences as an African American was that I was the one rejected .
Speaker 2I was identified and put in a box because of the color of my scan . The community that I resided in , the physical attributes that I had nothing to do with God had used this experience to show me that rejection is not limited to one color , one people feeling humiliated , made to feel less than like I didn't belong . We're all common denominator denominators . Even in the place where we're all taught that the ground at the foot of the cross is level , the need to fit in and belong is universal . You two have felt humiliated and undervalued and unwanted .
Speaker 2We all have that morning God sent me on a path that would take me out of my narrow life to live with and experience other cultures , tribes , nations and languages and expand my understanding of a great big God and his bodacious love for all of humanity . I used to be afraid that I didn't fit in and sometimes I still don't , but I deal with it that I would not belong . Now I know how to be culturally literate , I translate well . I say I'm confident that I can walk into diverse rooms and be welcomed and embraced . I learned that in all those rooms I may have stood out as being different , but that God had made me different to make a difference I was , I am someone else's opportunity to engage with someone who's no very different from me and to have their curiosity met .
Speaker 2There's a late questions answered , wounded hearts heard and the game confidence to engage across cultures and , in doing so , to build bridges and to promote unity .
Speaker 1Wow , I love it . I you know , when you said that that day , it was that day , that moment , you understood that rejection comes to everybody . It comes to everybody , and so it's not only one type of person or one ethnic group that experiences rejection . Humans experience , yes , man , and rejection and rejection hurts , for whatever your race is , however you identify , it is important for us to recognize that people are created in the image of God , not black people , not white people , not Chinese , not Vietnamese , not any . It's not specific to a nationality , ethnic group or skin color . Nice , right , any of the other isms that we deal with . And so what I really hear you identifying is that we are created in the image of God and we should view each other in that way . But talk with us a little bit about the ABC thing . Tell us about that .
Speaker 2Well , before I go to that , let me just a response to you say yes , a lot of what we go through today , with all of our differences , and there's myriad ways to be different , so many different ways of diversity , as you named , all the ism's , the schisms , and our ethnicity , our race , our culture , our nationality , the groups that we are in , that define who we are . There are so many different ways , and so that when we don't honor one another first and foremost as the image of God , that is where we go awry . And if we would just remember , especially of the of us who profess that we follow the Lord , jesus Christ , then it is , it is our mandate to honor one another as God's creation and to love one another even more than we love ourselves . Yes , so what I have found is that when , when you find yourself in those rooms and you might even be invited in , like a church , a church says , who's so ever come , that you know you're welcome , but what I have learned is that we can walk into those churches or those events that we even that we're invited into and we're , we're , we're surfacingly welcomed , but we're not actually embraced . So there is a feeling of being different which isolates you and orientates you . So what I have learned is that when I walk into those rooms , I've already got a mindset that I'm going to be the change that I want to see . I don't want anybody to ever walk into a room like that couple did and no , thinking they were welcome because it was a church and I'm sure they were believers , and then to not feel like they fit in or they don't belong . And so we have to first be the change that we want to see . That's what the famous quote says . And so when I walk into a room , first and foremost I know that there may be an opportunity for me to look beyond myself and make someone else feel comfortable . So I've done that . Even when I have a purposely intended and all white led church and people are very uncomfortable , I find myself coming into their room and I make them comfortable . So what I have a first .
Speaker 2What I do is I first assess myself , because you all know that we can decide that we want to be bridge builders or reach out to someone else , but if we're not in the right mindset and the right frame of mind , then we are . We probably should not say anything because then we don't know what's going to come out of our lives in a time of stress or uncertainty , and so sometimes we can do more damage than hurt . So the first thing I do is to think you know , okay , am I in a space , or am I prepared ? I prepare myself for that , that that may happen , that I see someone that doesn't look like they belong , or I feel that way . So , instead of focusing on me , I look around the room . I look across the room , I go to someone else who may be standing alone or wallflower , not involved , or feel kind of uncomfortable , and so the first thing I do is to approach them with a heart .
Speaker 2That is an obedience to God . To love one another with all of our hearts are mine and our strength , and to love our neighbors as our self . That's an active obedience on my part as a believer , because love , inclusion and belonging must flow from a heart that loves the Lord first , and because we love the Lord and we obey his commandment to love our neighbors as we love ourselves . But you know , in order to love others , you have to first love yourself . Are you , am I in a position to go beyond myself to love another ? Am I ready to love someone totally different than than me and to not just welcome but embrace all that makes them uniquely , them . Do ask yourself do you have the capacity , the confidence to risk being uncomfortable ? What is the condition of your heart ? So I always start with a heart , because I was taught or I've learned that the heart of the human problem is a problem of the human heart . What is the condition of your heart ? That's a Then is be Connect to one point , connects . Excuse me , pause , stop the recording , sorry .
Speaker 1It's okay , he edited out .
Speaker 2Yeah , okay , you're going to keep going . Let me take a drink .
Speaker 1Okay , so you'll start with that was a Bridge .
Speaker 2A bridge is something that connects one point to another . Right , you connect . That connects to a point where you start and where you want to end up . So you make a connection , even from across the room . You see the person , see the person . I can tell you how important that is . In fact , it's so important that an African proverb or a way of greeting people is to say I see you , because what we don't are comfortable with we tend to make invisible . We act like they don't exist . So it is so important to see the person Meet their eyes , so that they recognize that you see them , then you smile and you smile as you walk toward them . When we want to shift the atmosphere of the room , we radiate welcome with our whole being . We have to be the change we want to see in order to build bridges across all that divides us in these challenging times .
Speaker 2Call Next is see , communicate . You engage them in conversation . You just talk to them , but you pee in the moment , giving them your full attention . The Bible tells us that out of the abundance of the heart to the mouth speaks . What is your heart full of ? Do your words align with what you're moaning to the person Are you saying welcome , but your nonverbals give a different message . Do you leave them standing there or do you invite them to sit with you to join you in whatever comes next , you take care of them , you embrace them . The Bible is ABC Right .
Sustaining Intentional Love and Cultural Understanding
Speaker 1Wow , so I hear intentionality all through that right , there has to be an awareness and the intent to gather and embrace rather than to push away or to put boundaries in between that cause us to be separated . How is it that you are able to sustain that mindset , particularly with all of the things that we've seen , all of the abuses of it , with all of the videos and all of the things that are out there that always keep before us , all of the things that are going on in the culture that are negative ? Speak to us about how you are able to continue to cultivate that mindset and live out of that space .
Speaker 2So , number one , as I said , as a believer of Christ , I tried to live as Christ lived , and so I , and in no obedience , I have to follow the commandment to love one another . Christ thought it was so important that , even on his way to the cross the night before , he took time and John 13 to tell him again the new commandment I give you is to love one another as God and the Father have loved each . And then , if he emphasized it so much that a few more events happened that night in that upper room , which , by the way , was on a Maudy Thursday , and Maudy Thursday is the word for mandate , so it was named that because that was a mandate , it was a commandment given to us , and so it was so important that then , over again , john 17 , he took the time to pray the only prayer that he's ever prayed . Now he gave us the model prayer for how to pray , but this is the prayer capture recorded that he prayed for us , for his disciples and for those who would come . He prayed his father God has shared his glory with him , his son , and he would share it with us and that he had taught the disciples and that he prayed that we would be one as he and the Father are , one , that we would love one another as he and the Father love one another , and through our love for one another than the world would know would see our love and believe in Jesus , who God sent . And so that is ever on my mind . You know , growing up I was always a student and a perfectionist and I wanted to get it right , so that always stays ever present in my mind .
Speaker 2The other thing is that , through my experiences of living and traveling across the world and all in and out of every culture and country , even and even across the United States and all the different regions , I studied , I learned , I did , I attained cultural competence , and all that means is that I educated myself and it's an ongoing process to understand other cultures , and that means their , their , their beliefs , their values , their worldviews , how , their lens of how they see the world and act and respond to it , how they orientate themselves in the world . So that's made up of their culture , their identity , how they identify themselves , and listening to them and really to the words and what they say . And because I want to be understood , I take the time to understand someone else , and so so now that I have intentionally tried to understand their culture and their history and their background and my own , oh , my goodness . It always starts first with yourself . You so understand yourself , your own social identity , your own cultural identity , your own , your own words to describe yourself , how you self identify , and you come to terms with who you are and then , as a believer , understanding who I am in the eyes of God , and I'm going to be obedient to my daddy who tells me you have all your sisters and brothers , I don't care how , how wack you think they are , and then you're ever , when you , when you come up with those circumstances , you're in the moment and in the heart . It goes back to the heart . My heart just melts for them .
Exploring Cultural Competence and Bias Awareness
Speaker 2Now it used to be , before I was culturally competent or aware , I would respond . Somebody would stumble over a trigger in mind that I didn't even know I had , and it would upset me . But what I learned was to remain curious , to , instead of responding in offense , to ask a question , to be curious , to go huh inside myself . Now , that's that bugged me and I don't know why . And so , if I have time , I do a quick run through myself of I could potentially , potentially have bothered me . But to them I might say why do you feel that way ? Or why would you say that ? Or even say you know , you don't know my background , but that kind of hurt my feelings and here's why . And then I'll you know most people are . You assume that they it was unintentional , because we have hearts right after God and we're going to honor them , and so I just assume that they have said something that they , because they're just , they don't know me and there's no way they couldn't know me because we're just talking and they don't know what all I've been through they don't know necessarily know my background or only from their perspective , my background , even as an African American in the United States of these emeritus . And so that's the main thing to just .
Speaker 2It is like you said earlier , it's an awareness .
Speaker 2It's such a level of awareness that always first starts with yourself .
Speaker 2And I'm telling you , when you really understand yourself and know yourself , what's an all is one of my past issues to say and accept yourself of who you are and that we're we're , we're human vessels and we're ever growing and changing . You know , we're not who we are , we are becoming something else , that you always know , that there's room for learning and room to improve , even on yourself . But what that does is gives you such a level of confidence Because , like I know myself and there's not much you're going to say about me that's going to shock you . Shock me because I know and I'm very honest about to myself and to the Lord , about all that I am and all that I'm not . And I remember all those times when I was the one in my unconscious , with unconscious bias , that said something , and thank God that I have only spirit in me , that will , that will pick , will pick my touch , my self conscious , my consciousness , and say , well , you can't say that . Other people can say something like that , maybe , but you cannot , you should not have said that .
Speaker 1It's a lot , wow , wow . So there's a self awareness there , right ? So a very real honesty that's there and communicating with ourselves , communicating with God and also in communicating with others . I believe that it's it's just been my opinion that everybody is not going to be willing to come to the table and have some real gut level , honest conversations , but some people will be honest , and I found that in a course when I was in seminary , working on my master's of Divinity degree .
Speaker 1I was in a Baptist seminary where there were biases because I was a female and preaching classes . There were biases because of my skin color . What I didn't realize is my own biases were , were really , really prevalent . I took a racial reconciliation course and I remember my , I remember my professor was , was , was Dr Cosby , and so Dr Kevin Cosby , and he was saying you keep saying they , who is they ? And I was so taken aback by that because in that moment I was able to see how I had leaned into creating the same types of issues of toward others that I dealt with . And so it's that analogy of becoming like what you can't stand , and so in the moment when he asked me that question , I just that actually opened up some major discussion in the class and I had to admit that I was just as wrong , because two wrongs don't make a right , even though I felt just to be too wrong still don't make a right , and I had a responsibility and for me , that was part of me starting to deal with it .
Speaker 1Now I'm not where you are . I haven't done as much work and I know that , but I have been intentional about making sure that I learned to engage people and judge them by their merits and not just isolate myself with only people who look like me . So that's one thing that convicted me on my journey . Share with us some ways that I guess people can start slowly with , you know , maybe net a burs or coworkers , or how can people start slowly to really begin to see what their own Bias is are and start doing some work ? I know that there are a lot of people who are , who are a professing believers , who have experienced so much hurt , so much pain from decades of racism , that they are still troubled about having conversations and think it may be something that's just too hard for them to conquer all at once . How can they start small ? How can we stop small ?
Speaker 2I'm sorry I actually hit the meat button . I'm so glad you asked that and it would be a perfect time to plug my coaching program that I have . That's on cross-cultural empowerment . But before I say that , tell you about that , or at least one thing you can do . I want to affirm a lot of what you said is Christians or as workplace .
Speaker 2Much of what we're experiencing today , I believe , is because of culture , and remember , at the beginning I introduced myself as a multicultural misfit . I believe we're all multicultural misfits because we're living in a multicultural world , we're crossing cultures and don't realize it , and so we are normally trampled all over someone else's values , beliefs and traditions . Our behaviors offend and we interpret another's behavior as offensive . We trip over and trigger each other's unconscious biases and you might even call them blind spots and things that go bump in the night , because everything has a culture . And then we wonder what just happened , we're hurt , we're confused , we're angry , afraid to talk about it , hesitant to approach another person of another culture , race , gender , generation , religion , workplace , department , even . Everything has a culture and culture is one of the main components influencing our identity and how we that lens . I talked about the worldview , how we react and orientate to people , persons , races and events , the way in which we make sense of our world . And so what I have found is that .
Speaker 2Let me share with you one example of something that happened in a church and on a church staff . I always say that you're not accepted or you're the only one , even on the church staff . And so I was called by a church , literally called . I did not approach them , they approached me . It was a big , mega church , about 8,000 members in Ohio , and they had been praying , and the pastor had been part of an ecumenical pastors group that got together and prayed so many mornings a month , and so it had come to his attention this is a white pastor , so a white , a predominantly white led mega church . And he had come to realize that there were hues in the pews , but there were none on staff , and so he had come to the understanding that we needed to have reflected in the church , on the stage , what was in the pews , so that everyone could see themselves , especially in the minds and hearts of young people . We become what we see and what's modeled for us , and there was nothing being modeled . So he prayed with his church and eventually swayed them to taking on people of different cultures , and so they hired six people non-white culture .
Navigating Cultural Conflict and Unconscious Bias
Speaker 2And so one was a black man , that who , in his wife , had been missionaries with another denomination . He was a police officer . They had started schools and had unbelievable success in different parts of the world countries . There was another gentleman who had been , had worked for another denomination , and he and his wife his wife was a radio , christian radio host .
Speaker 2There was a young gentleman from the Bahamas who had come to Nashville and American Baptist College for school . His dad was a pastor and he had also become a pastor , and so he was there . There was , there was me Excuse me , was that six ? And then one person in facilities , and so you can imagine that everywhere we went , we were hitting each other's blind spots and churning unconscious biases and not realizing that that's what we were doing . Well , I was a little bit more aware , but there were others who weren't . The young gentleman from Bahamas was like what is your understanding is ? This is a major culture mentality , and I come from a majority culture in the Bahamas . We are the majority , so I understand the confidence , I understand even the arrogance , and then there was , of course , me , who , you know , God had called into this and I had lived in other countries by then and I spoke many languages and so I could die . And then the work , some of the work . I was still growing but I understood .
Speaker 2So we're in this meeting one day , excuse me , led by and which turns leading these Bible studies , finally gotten approved for it to have a Bible , say , believe that in a church way , to be approved to have a staff Bible study . So we finally got it approved and this particular day , excuse me , this lady named Candy was leading the , this Bible study . So we thought Bible study , we talked issues you know , as it related to the Bible study , practical application , and then at the end of it she asked for any suggestions for the next meeting . You know she might not be leading it , but were there any suggestions about some other things that we might talk about ? So I suggested that we perhaps come and talk about some of the things that we were experiencing in our everyday work life and talk about some of the cultural issues in conflicts and bumps in the night .
Speaker 2Now take it , now understand that this church , at first thing , part of their orientation was you had to do a study on reconciliation and resolving conflict in relationships , and so let them . Why don't we talk about that ? Well , I can't even remember everything that went on , but can I say that from there it deteriorated late . The lady young lady white ended up in tears , felt like I had personally attacked her . She , you know , told our boss or elder , the senior senior pastor of us not these , not the senior pastor , but , in their hierarchy , my supervising senior pastor and all of a sudden I was this bad person and all I had done was suggested that we talk about an elephant on the table and do it in the , in the , in the surroundings of this , about this Bible study , this time of us to come together and eat and fellowship together . And after that she avoided me all the time . She would not ever talk to me . Now it's true that turns out she has some of her own issues , but she resolved by getting more confidence in herself , losing a lot of weight and things like that .
Speaker 2But this is the kind of thing that can happen in the workplace . And then people are left with do I address it or not ? Do I just let it go ? Do I suffer in silence ? Where's a safe place to talk about this ? Who is safe to talk to about it , and so the Lord has always positioned me in my life , and now I intentionally do it in a workplace , even as I found , when I go to an all black workplace , that there's still something about me that makes me different and to stand out as a foreigner , a foreigner of a distant land . And so I have to , I have to understand that and position myself as a person who , who , who listens and that will you know respond with a soft answer . Soft answer turns away rat , and so that is one of the first things that we can do we can position ourselves as the safe space .
Speaker 1I like that position ourselves as the safe space the safe space . So that's why the search .
Speaker 2When you see someone , you know people and a lot of it is just the spirit in you . But you know that we can look at people and that the eyes are the window , the soul . That's why I say first , you know , get their attention , meet their eyes , because they can tell whether your friend or foe , you know , by the glimmer in your eye which you radiate . We have to radiate with our whole being acceptance , you know , and so and then so , when people come to you and a lot of times don't get me wrong , and sometimes I would be the one hurting so bad , but it's always been more important for me to make someone else , to let someone else leave the room feeling more peace and at least a germ of acceptance , because I think in that you end up allowing them the space to really truly question themselves and to come to terms with themselves .
Speaker 2Because a lot of times when people say wrong things , if they haven't , if they didn't know they were going to say something that was offensive or upsetting to you , if they didn't unintentionally , they see the reaction right away . Or if they don't see the reaction right away and you're the type person that can say something to them of , you know very lovingly , you know . Just explain it to them . They think about that . That sticks with them . It becomes a brain worm , still an earworm , and don't think about that thing over and over again . And that point that one opportunity to bring awareness will make them , I think intentionally , will lead them to intentionally question even more things that have happened in their lives or things have said and , to be honest , when somebody else has offended them .
Speaker 1Well , I think that I'm hearing that it doesn't just make them comfortable , but it also empowers and it can be a tool that leads people to self-examination , self-awareness and certainly , in order for us to do the work , we've got to do those things . What happens when you press in and you have the tough conversations and we hold ourselves accountable first and we also are willing to hold others accountable ? What happens when we do that and nothing changes ? What can we do ? And those types of circumstances .
Speaker 2Well , we know that change does not happen overnight , and so one of the things I premise it with , especially when people come up and can I talk or can I ask you why black people do this or why this person does that , or then I say , okay , here's the deal , I will talk with you , but I can only talk from my own experience . When I talk to you , I'm telling you Judith's experience , judith's example . It does not go for every black person in the world . I can give you our common shared experiences through history , what we know , but you have to understand that . Number one . Number two it cannot be a one time conversation .
Speaker 2If you really want to know , you have to commit to me that we will have a follow up conversation or conversations , because , even though what I tell you , your heart is open and you may listen and you may receive at that time , because you're my presence , what I'm saying .
Speaker 2But the minute you walk away or go back into your own environment of people , you know just your own environment of whatever those belief systems are in the talks that going on , all of a sudden you think about for back over what the conversation that we have , and you're uncomfortable , you think you took it wrong . You're mad , it's just confusion . You have to promise me that it will go on an ongoing conversation or at least we'll have one other conversation , because and I take it as a teaching moment If you take what I say about Judith and all of a sudden you think I know black people and you go to the next black person and assume you know them and come across as very confident that I know black people , I can talk to black people now I'm confident , and they find yourself perhaps in a very peculiar situation .
Speaker 1That is true , that is true , and so there's no , there's no quick fix . One size fits all for any of this right for any of this .
Speaker 2It is just like winning people to the Lord . You do your testimony , you share your experience , you give them an opportunity to encounter the Lord Jesus Christ through you , and then it is their decision whether to accept him and even then to start learning and walking in his will and his way . Well , the same thing with anything that you share , this different for them it it has to be their own conscious decision . And so when you talk to someone and they stay hateful for the rest of their life , that you have to realize that's not on you . That was their decision , their kind . They encountered it . It was their decision to continue on the way they do .
Speaker 2And let me say this that a lot of times I have found that people who are like that don't ever really , are never really open to changing or opening up their hearts to others different than them , whether that's not just culture and ethnicity but all kinds of diversity that they . They close themselves off from all of it , and so they're not . They're not going to , they're just not open . They're going to never intentionally be it . But when they will become intentional is when it personally impacts them .
Speaker 2Their family member or their person marries into that culture , whatever it is , whatever it is that makes you different , whether it's a blended family or non traditional family . Or you know , your , your daughter , marries a black man and all of a sudden you got these grand babies that are biracial . That is when they really start opening their hearts and come into terms and really wanting to understand those type of yeah , yeah , you know . And so you just continue , like we do with people that hear the word and choose not to follow . At that time , you just pray and believe that you planted to see someone else will water it along the way and hopefully someone else will get to see the harvest .
Speaker 1Yes , yes . What would you say to people who have lived through decades and decades of racism , classism , sexism ? And it's almost like people can have a tendency to feel , if I don't hold on to this , if I ease up on this , then it's me condoning what people have done to me , or it's me condoning what happened to my grandmother or my ancestors or what have you and I'm speaking from culturally African Americans . A lot of people feel so that I've spoken with . A lot of people feel as if I can't .
Speaker 1I can't release people who have done these things in the past , who have been racist . I can't release them from this because if I , if I do , then I can't hold them accountable . I can't hold future generations accountable , and I feel like I'm betraying my people If I start to embrace something different . So how do you , how do you speak
Understanding Anger and Healing From Racism
Speaker 1to that ? And speak to those , those attitudes and a lot of them that I've spoken with are people who are believers but there's this anger that shows up , which is really an acceptable picture of the pain is anger , and so what would you say to someone who's living that experience ?
Speaker 2What I would say , what I have said . Number one I always started with I am so sorry . It is amazing what the power of those words happy costs . Even though it may have been history and in world culture , worldviews that they inherited , it's their reality . And sometimes just hearing somebody , anybody , connect with their hurt and their heart to say I am so sorry For whatever experience you had , your family's had , in generations . I am so sorry that you , you know , have that , you have to deal with that . That's your experience .
Speaker 2But you know , just as we're taught as Christians , that forgiveness we are to forgive and forgiveness is not for the one you forgive , it's for you to forgive her . Yes , yes . And so you can choose to carry all of that that hurt from the institutionalized racism , or some people call it racialization in the field that I study in , because racism , even if racism doesn't exist anymore , the effects of racism exist in these impact upon the world , upon the earth , and so some people call it racialization . And so they are impacts . There are effects of that and because it has been perpetuated through the industrial movement and segregation and all the things going forth and all the institutional , how embedded it is in the institution of schools and churches and just the United States . And now you know , as I'm getting more , even more worldview with folks on on the zoom all over the world , it is , it is , it becomes something that is more subtle , but it is still there and you don't . It's kind of like being when you're sexually harassed , people go how do you know sexual harassment , was that feeling inside that it's almost like a feeling of being humiliated . But past that , like something valuable taken from you , is like it's like a rape . And so the same thing with I would tell some people that say you know , they say I don't get . You know black people and why they have such anger and such you know hatred or whatever . And it's like you don't know it until you feel it . And maybe for a black person , black person can relate to that .
Speaker 2But for all my , my white sisters and brothers , my European sisters and brothers , then I have to find another way , an example , to show them in their lives how it would relate to them . And , for instance , we see in the news all the time where there's this precious beautiful little blonde , blue eyed person who was kidnapped in early age and was taken by somebody and years later they came forth and they've been kept by that man and they're giving birth to his children and then , you know , been abused and never seen the light of day and all these terrible things , and they come forth and they're giving all this love and attention and nurturing and psychological and medical attention for as long as they need it , and not only them , their children , because their children didn't understand it all , but they felt the effects and they've been built into this . And as they get older is when they read their own story and hear other people talking about it . Then their kids are going to be barred and barred with that information too . So all along the way , they know that they really have to walk . Somebody has to walk with these , this mother and these children throughout their whole life , because certain things only arise in the psyche as you get older , as you approach things or as triggers are triggered , and so I use that , for instance , with white women , to say so . When do you stop giving that person and trying to understand their experience ? When do you stop ever trying to understand that woman's experience ? When do you stop trying to understand those children's experience ? When do you stop hurting for them ? When do you stop trying to make a better day for them or to soothe their hurts and their anxieties as they go forth , even up through the ages .
Speaker 2Well , that that is so with a person of a culture , for instance from from the African American . Let's stay with the African American experience when that's all you know for generations , that that that family has gone through from , from being brought from Africa and enslaved . No slaves were brought from Africa . They were free people brought to the states and made slaves , and even that is a lot opener for most people that they didn't realize what they say when they're saying .
Speaker 2But anyway , when you , when you explain that , and there are people that , just as as the world is segregated to a certain extent now by communities , because we have everything we need in the community that we need and there's no reason for people to go outside that community , well , the same thing you know and think about those communities of poverty and and and extended racism , where they they still get their main identity and their main values , their main worldview , from that enclosed community in which they live , and so it's perpetuated generation after generation after generation , because there was no one that came through or they don't see the society responding to it and giving them the understanding , taking the extra effort to understand them , to understand what they've been through and what their children are going to go through and how it's manifested in their lives . It's a thinking man's game . You kind of know and thinking what does that look like for you ?
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2I experienced what . What does that ? You don't have my experience , but what does that translate to you in your experience ?
Speaker 1Hmm , so this is not a sprint , this is a marathon .
Speaker 2This is a marathon , my program , my coaching program that started a couple years ago . I tell them and in fact I have this little , this little ebook that you can read is real quick , simple and easy , and it's almost more like a fill in the blanks or games , because it's like I'm not going to tell you . I can tell you what my five steps are to becoming what I feel like you have to give attention to , to become a bridge builder . But I only call it a discovery , that is , it is a book that will help you to start you on the path , the journey to discover who you are , who you , what you need to do to become a bridge builder .
Speaker 1It's a lifelong .
Speaker 2It's a lifelong assignment . We never , like I said , I don't get it right all the time . There's times that , even though I know all of this and and something will hit me , and I go inward and not inward to what happened here but like , oh , I'm hurting . You know that , that really just . You know that really just hit me in a different spot and it came at me on a wire that wasn't . I wasn't ready for that .
Speaker 1Right , right , yeah , I believe I believe for me , matter of fact , one of the most memorable things , that that I've really well , two of the most memorable things I've had to work through and work really hard and pray through and therapy is good because these two incidents were so extreme and so tragic and it just did something to me . I love that we have cameras now because a lot of what we were trying to get people to understand they can now see , and I know that's helped tremendously with some relationships where people say you know , it was different when I saw it and I thought about you or I thought about our conversation . You know those things . And it was the Trayvon Martin case and the verdict . I remember where I was , I remember what I was doing , I remember being so utterly confused . I remember crying and not being . I couldn't stop the tears . And I remember , as a minister , receiving so many calls and text messages from people who had some and saying , now , what do I tell my son , now , what do I do ? And I just remember that moment and I remember that I was something I really had to work through . And also the George Floyd thing . I just , you know , working through those things . Really , I had to get some assistance to work through those things .
Speaker 1So what I realized is that if we view everyone as created is in the image of God , and every person being redeemable not because of their own works , but because of the work of Jesus Christ , then I can't .
Speaker 1I can't have the isms rule and reign in my life , because they will cost me so much more than I ever wanted to give , because I can't live in obedience to Christ and I can't be okay with having hatred In my heart for another person . So one of the things that I think is important is to work through it in the way that we have to do it . And so when I recognize I began to recognize that when , when fear walks in , there is going to be covering up , there's going to be avoidance and all of that , but when truth walks in , fear walks out , and so I have to live in the light of truth , and that means wrestling with myself sometimes . Right , yes , and so give us what your favorite scripture is to help us to begin to see others through the lens of the image of God . Give us , give us a scripture that you rest on that really helps you to help people understand .
Speaker 2Wow , that that's my you can , I can see all these groups is going past my , my eyes . Where does one ? I find myself saying to other folks , of course , one of them , of course , is in . This was
Unity, Diversity, and Hope in Christianity
Speaker 2in .
Speaker 2I'm a praise worship . I'm a praise worshiper and I love being happy and joyful , so it makes me happy to picture heaven in the revelations scripture , that you know , that there was every tongue and every tribe and every nation , that around the clock is singing Holy , holy , holy is the Lord , god Almighty , and that for some reason excites me , because it's really because I've , you know , I've been to so many countries and I speak so many languages , and even on the earth I think about bringing all my friends together that I've lived 67 years and so I've lived in every region , almost every region of the United States , and it's like I want to be the magnet , I want to be one of the forces that helps me to see , you know , to not just do see it in heaven , but to see it here on earth , that we're all just coming together and it just doesn't matter . And so , yeah , and like you can tell that just that just gives me joy and delight . So when I walk into a church and I see that actually manifested , you know , but it's on this stage and it's in the body and is in the pews , and and , and not only that , like in my church , there's a Sunday where every , every country , every nation that is in the church has the opportunity to walk with their flag and proudly be acknowledged and embraced . That all of our diversity does not make us , and differences , does not make us so different that we can't love one another and we can't be alone . And ultimately , you know , we can , kind of can , abide in unity . And so I see that at the church , and you know where else I see it .
Speaker 2Help us , help us , lord Jesus , our Christians , because this is one of the idea places I see it , at a national soccer game , that's maybe football players , people may take sides and get irate or whatever , so whatever , but when you go into a soccer stadium which originated in other countries and other continents and you come in and they're bringing in teams from team members from all over the country , it doesn't matter what their ethnicity , their nationality , their language , some of them can't even speak English but they come because of their skill , their gift , that thing that only they bring to the team and that they can put together with the other skill gifts and skills of the team to become this winning , powerful entity . So it starts with the team and because of that , everybody that comes has that same mindset . You know they don't get mad , they don't get it . You know they they boot , they , they even cheer when there's a good play by even the other team , because it was just so awesome in the world of soccer and so that's the other place . That is just like Walmart . For America used to be it , but for me , because it's the joyfulness , the celebration , it's , it's the soccer team that comes closest to heaven and everybody learns the songs and Ray learns that same thing . That's all about .
Speaker 2You know we're standing in unity , will never give up on you . It that's the words . I'll never give up on you and ultimately , that's what I believe the heart of Christianity is . John 316 , when God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , knowing who we are , what we're going to do and what we're going to be . And yet he never gave up on us and he made away . God so love the world that he gave his only beloved , forgotten son to . Whosoever believes in him should not perish , but have everless to life . And so I know that there is hope for everybody , for this world and for each and every individual , because God doesn't give up on us .
Love Requires Action
Speaker 1Wow , wow . Now you said a whole mouthful . His love never fails .
Speaker 2Never fails .
Speaker 1Never gives up .
Speaker 2Never gives up .
Speaker 1Never walks away from us , right , no ? And so what I'm hearing is that we've got to put in the work , we got to put in the word , because that's what love does .
Speaker 2That's what love does , and love is action . It's a verb , not a feeling . I don't have to feel love for you . I choose to love you . Yes , I love you in word , indeed in action . I love you to forgive your you know a fissiveness and not take offense you know and to work through , because and to work through just being being honest .
Speaker 1Sometimes we will get offended , but we work through it Right , because , as you stated earlier , forgiveness is not so much for the other , it's for us . Yes , it's for us , because I want to be free to be the vessel that God can use . Amen . I've got to release people , and I'm not saying it's easy because I know that's what I'm going to get in comments . That's not easy or it's easier said than done . But the truth of the matter is Is that all of us , we got one planet . We got one planet and we're all living on it , and we've got to let's we destroy ourselves completely . We've got to learn how to Live with one another , and so we've got to put in the work . We've got to be willing to do the work , not always because we feel like it , because most of the time we won't feel like , but we've got to be willing to do it because that's what love does . Thank you , thank you , sorry . Yeah , that's okay , he'll . He'll just edit it out . I don't want to make too much work for him .
Speaker 2I don't know why my internet just dropped . They're doing a lot of construction all around us and blasting and stuff , so I guess yeah , yeah you are fire .
Speaker 1You know what ? That was good . I love that . So I'm going to ask you to give us closing remarks , now , any . Do you have any closing remarks ? That's what I'm getting ready to ask you .
Speaker 2Okay , wait a minute , wait a minute and I can mention my , my , my program , right ? Yeah , I'm going to say that . I'm going to say that , okay , okay , why do I want to say ? Okay , I'll say something .
Speaker 1Well , no , I'll tell you what I'll do . I'll start this back up and I'll say okay , judith , close us out , share with us about your coaching program and anything else you'd like to share . So make sure you share about your coaching , make sure you share how they can follow you on social media , that stuff , your website , whatever . Okay .
Speaker 2Okay , I'm hot . Okay , all right , I guess .
Speaker 1So let me know when you're ready .
Speaker 2This computer popped back up and gave me all this stuff I don't need on my Zoom Just started doing that . They keep adding stuff , and so , therefore , they keep adding stuff . Okay , it's distracting . Okay , I'm going to go to . I don't need to see myself , I'm going to go to . No , I'll leave it . Okay , I'm still not ready . Okay , all right , I'll say something .
Speaker 1Okay . So , judith , today has been a joy . You've given me so much to chew on . I got to go back and look at some stuff with some things around , sharpen my perspective . So share with us , share with us how people can reach out to you . Share with us the resources that you offer . The floor is yours .
Speaker 2Well , you know I started out with hello . I'm a multicultural misfit , but with a purpose to become a bridge builder , and I believe that each one of us are called to be bridge builders , to be reconcilers . But some of you may think that you don't have the tools , you don't know how to start . I can help with that . You can go to my website , simply JudithLoganAnthonycom , and download my free gift to you , a little book entitled You're the Cool Become a Bridge Builder , and that will introduce you to my program , which are five keys to discover your self-work , to heal wounded hearts yours and others caused by cultural divisions , cultural wars , society-constructed isms and schisms , and gain confidence to engage with other cultures , and you'll be able to equip others to become bridge builders with global impact . So the next time you're in a place where someone doesn't fit in , you will be that bridge builder that will make a difference . You will help them to fit in and belong .
Speaker 2I have in that book and I call it just it is keys to help you discover . Discover what it takes to become a bridge builder . You know I've said that the phrase be a change you want to see .
The Five Keys to Cultural Understanding
Speaker 2So there are five steps or keys , and I actually came up with a game too , that hopefully will be coming out in 2024 , called Get a Clue . Remember the game ? Clue , yeah , yeah . And in that game the five keys really relate to the body parts , because we're all one body but many parts .
Speaker 2And so it starts with the heart , which is clarity . People think clarity is in the brain understanding . No , clarity is in the heart . Remember who you are , what is the condition of your heart , all the scriptures about the heart and loving one another . So it starts with clarity . Then it's cultural competence , that's the brain , that's the head , that's the thought process , that's the intentional learning and understanding , cultures and history and everything that is that impacts us , to make this division , this gap that we have to help bridge . And then the third step is communication . It's ears . People think the mouth is communication and it's part of it , but as we as communicators know that communication only starts , it's only effective when someone speaks and somebody listens and hears and understands . And so communication and we'll talk about all the different ways even communication causes conflict in a gap .
Speaker 2Commitment got to build up , get that body built up . It's a commitment to the work , to doing all that you need and all and bringing all this together and then hands and feet are the community that , even when you know and as you start learning and doing , we have to come together and communities through collaborations . You can never do it all yourself , so these keys will lead you on a path of discovery to know and understand your own cultural identity , worldview , your social identity . It will reduce stress and anxiety so that you're prepared in times of social crisis Can somebody say social crisis with the election season coming up social crisis time and to safely and confidently engaging conversations about race , ethnicity and culture without offense . I'm telling you it's just time , tish is time , world , to stop burning bridges and build them to one another . So I say , in the name of Jesus , let's go , let's make a difference together and let it begin today .
Speaker 1Wow , we ended on that note . What else do you think I could possibly say Nothing ? Thank you , judith , I love you . You are my sister and you just helped me a whole lot . Yo Go find her social media website , all of that , find her .
Speaker 2Let's do it . Judith Logan . Judith Logan Anthony dot com . Judith Logan Anthony on Facebook Judith Logan Anthony easy to find by name .
Speaker 1All right , all right , thank you .
Speaker 2Thank you . Thank you for having me .